Faults / Bugs with the Pace Twin PVR
Commentary 21/08/2004:
Blimey, it's been a while since the last update, sorry about that... been very busy... apologies to anyone who has e-mailed me who hasn't received a reply.
It appears that there is a new firmware revision being broadcast next week, see the DTG schedule here:
http://www.dtg.org.uk/cgi-bin/download_schedule.pl
The DigitalSpy thread suggests that it should contain some unspecified bug fixes, enhancements to memory management, and further enhancements to the EPG.
Sorry again for the lack of recent updates.
Commentary 09/06/2004:
It appears that the latest firmware (1.7.60) that was broadcast at the weekend is significantly less reliable than the previous firmware (1.7.55).
This is based on the number of failed recordings, crashes and other problems reported on the DigitalSpy thread. If you are currently on the 1.7.55 firmware, I would suggest that you consider very carefully whether or not to accept the upgrade to 1.7.60 in the event that it is re-broadcast.
I have written to Pace asking for a statement on the situation with this product, and I will update this site and/or the DigitalSpy thread as soon as I know more.
That is all I can say at this stage.
Commentary 06/06/2004:
An update was finally broadcast this weekend, taking the version to 1.7.60. This is the first new update since October 2003.
If you read the DigitalSpy thread from this point onwards you should see the discussion of experiences of the new software over the weekend. Please post your experiences there.
The best we can tell, the situation is as follows...
The following bugs appear to have been fixed (or have been reported to be so):
Timer setting conflict (1)
Timer recordings whilst watching analogue (1)
Blank screen after switching the unit out of manual semi-standby (1)
BBCi News Multiscreens
Loss of FF / REW / Play graphics
RGB pass-thru lack of Red (Blue tint)
Edit Programme Title does not work
(1) Note that these were actually newly introduced by 1.7.55 and were not in previous versions.
The following existing bugs still appear to be present:
REW/FF random skip (1)
Recordings corruption (at least one of the symptoms -- failure was reported part-way through a recording, and subsequent recordings failed until the unit was reset)
Channel change sound drop-out
Timeshare channel behaviour
Playback Momentary Picture Freeze (1)
Zero-length recording
Picture Freeze on playback of very dark/bright pictures (2)
Recording fails to stop
(1) These have been tested on new and existing recordings. (2) Only tested on existing recording
The status of the other bugs is unknown at this stage, however experiences suggest that the core recording and playback functionality remains unchanged.
I will do a proper update of this site in due course, and then invite Pace to comment on the situation. If you need to contact Pace yourself, their e-mail address is customer.support@pace.co.uk
The number of hits on this site to date stands at 11498.
IMPORTANT: Text below this point still refers to 1.7.55, an update is pending – please read in conjunction with the latest commentary above
Commentary 18/4/2004:
...I do want, however, to make a special note about the “Crash on Channel Change” bug: Some people report this as happening very frequently, others no longer see the problem at all since the update to 1.7.55. I can't really offer much in the way of explanation of this – it could be related to anything from usage patterns, signal strength, slight timing variations in hardware etc. I have tried to reproduce it and cannot, yet some can cause it to occur almost at will. See here for some examples.
Also, this site does not necessarily contain an exhaustive list of bugs. I believe it lists the majority of the major bugs, but occasionally some rarer or one-off bugs are reported on the DigitalSpy thread and on other forums. It's difficult to decide about listing some of them individually, since for example if the Twin's memory becomes corrupt, this could literally manifest in pretty much any type of (mis)behaviour – from an outright crash, down to a missing on-screen menu etc. It's always worth keeping an eye on the thread: Pace Twin Problems - post here
This list is intended to only contain details of bugs that are definitely present on the 1.7.55 firmware from the October 20th download (and its subsequent repeats). You can confirm what firmware version you are running by selecting Menu -> Configuration -> Product Data.
Please post additions/corrections to the thread on DigitalSpy:
Pace Twin Problems - post here
You can also e-mail bugs to pacetwin ((at)) riscthis {{dot}} net [ apologies for the address mangling, just trying to protect it from junk mail ]
Anyone from Pace can use the above e-mail address if they have read the thread and wish to discuss these issues
[ All trademarks are properties of their respective owners. ]
|
Bug Name |
Description |
Workaround |
|---|---|---|
|
Timer setting conflict [1] Frequency: Always |
When checking for timer conflicts, Repeating Timers are checked against the following day as well, thus preventing the scheduling of a recording during those times on the next day. e.g. set a Weekly Repeating Event on 24/10/2003 21:30 - 22:00. You now cannot set an event that overlaps those same times on the 25th either; the unit says there is a conflict with a repeating event when there is not. |
Make the conflicting timer a Weekly Repeating timer as well with a repeat length of 2 or greater. Remember to delete the timer after the programme has finished recording. |
|
REW/FF random skip [1] Frequency: fairly frequent, but random in appearance |
When using Rewind or Fast-Forward the position can suddenly skip several minutes, or even all the way to the start/end of the programme. You then have to manually find your place again within the recording to continue watching. I see this much more when using REW, but this may be because I don't use FF much (I usually use 60-second skip, and then rewind if that has overshot) This can happen when playing back any recording, but seems to be slightly more frequent if the unit is recording at the same time (this can be the same recording you're playing back, or a different one) |
Use the 60-second skip facility (up/down buttons) instead and/or press Clip to set a user bookmark before using FF/REW (so that you can easily get back to your place in the programme if the bug does happen). |
|
Recording sound drop-out [2] Frequency: Infrequent, but some people are affected by this much more severely |
Sometimes the sound drops out at some point during the recording and remains absent for the rest of the recording. On playback, if the recording is rewound to before the drop-out, the sound does NOT play on the earlier section either unless playback is stopped and restarted. Stopping and resuming to a bookmark past the drop-out does not restore sound either: there is no way to get it to play. Monitoring Tuner B output just after one of these recordings was made revealed no sound from that tuner until the channel was changed. It was suggested on the forum that instances of this may be related to changing channel whilst the unit is recording (i.e. that the time of the drop-out would coincide with a channel change) UPDATE: I have personally experienced this sound drop-out whilst watching a live broadcast. This may indicate that the fault is not restricted to the recording process itself (also see note about monitoring Tuner B output above) |
None known.
(If this is related to channel changing, a possible workaround would be to minimise channel changes whilst recording is in progress) |
|
Recordings corruption [1] Frequency: Unknown |
Recordings are sometimes corrupted rendering them partially or fully unplayable. Symptoms include:
It appears that back-to-back recordings (especially on the same channel) significantly increases the risk that one of the set of recordings (usually not the first) will be corrupted. |
None known. |
|
On-screen display crash [1] Frequency: Rare |
Using the on-screen display (e.g. Info, Volume control etc) during playback can crash the unit. The display either becomes a changing random pattern (as-if something was overwriting video RAM) or the entire screen becomes a single colour. Occurs relatively rarely. UPDATE: Pressing the following key sequence during playback appears to be a cause of this bug (although it may not be the only cause) Vol+, Info, Info |
None known. |
|
Channel change sound drop-out [1] Frequency: Infrequent |
Sometimes when changing channel, the video appears with no audio or the audio keeps cutting in and out like a corrupted sound file. |
Switching away from the channel and back restores the sound. |
|
Picture or Sound Loss for entire mux [1] Frequency: Infrequent |
Sometimes the picture OR sound will be lost for all channels on an entire mux. This can only be fixed by switching the unit into standby and restarting it (this will not work if unit is recording at the time since it will only enter semi-standby.) I think the picture loss symptom can be initiated by attempting to use BBCi Multiscreen service. |
None known. |
|
Sound Drop-Outs using Archive Frequency: Unknown |
Started recording and monitoring on headphones only to find that the sound was clicking and sometimes had drop outs. Sound was fine from the TV Output when doing normal playback. |
Use the normal playback facility and record from the TV SCART. |
|
BST to GMT switch bug Frequency: Twice a year |
The unit does not reset its clock until it is next switched on. A recording that happens before this is done will occur an hour early. |
None known, but possibly: Leave the unit switched on, OR schedule a dummy recording before the recording that you want, so that the unit has had a chance to start up and switch off and hence correct its clock. |
|
Start-up crash [1] Frequency: Rare |
Sometimes when pressing the On/Off button to bring the unit out of standby, it will crash. The clock display brightens to indicate that startup has commenced and then the unit crashes. If this happens as an unattended recording is starting, then no further recordings of any events will happen until a mains reset is done. |
None known. |
|
Timer recordings whilst watching analogue [1] [RGB only] Frequency: Always |
If you are watching analogue and the Twin starts up from standby for a recording, the analogue picture (though not sound or teletext) goes black. This remains even if you change channels. Only happens if you are using RGB output; if you are using Composite it works correctly. |
Press On/Off twice on the Twin remote. This puts the unit properly into semi-standby allowing analogue to be watched. |
|
Blank screen after switching the unit out of manual semi-standby [1] [RGB only] Frequency: Always |
During a recording, press On/Off to put the unit into semi-standby. If you press On/Off again later to watch digital you only get a black screen until you change channel, or press Info etc. Only happens if you are using RGB output; if you are using Composite it works correctly. |
Change Channel or press Info. |
|
Always outputs RGB when switching on when doing timer recording [1] [Composite only] Frequency: Always |
When the unit has started up from standby for a recording, if you switch it on from semi-standby the unit always outputs RGB even if configured to output Composite. |
Use a SCART to Phono adapter to ensure only the composite signal -- which gets sent anyway -- reaches the TV. It is also possible that you could modify a SCART cable to disconnect the line that does RGB switching – at your own risk! |
|
Timeshare channel behaviour [1] Frequency: Frequent, but inconsistent symptoms |
The unit often fails to display timeshare channels correctly, and you may have to switch back and forth between the channel and another one several times before you get both the sound and video displaying correctly. I understand that other manufacturer's boxes have also had difficulty tuning to timeshare channels. |
Tune to a non-timeshare channel and then back again. You may have to do this several times. |
|
BBCi News Multiscreens [1] Frequency: Always |
Do not work at all. This is a new service and other manufacturer's boxes have also had difficulty with this service. The BBC said that Pace have told them that this will be fixed in a new download. |
Can sometimes be made to partially work by visiting BBC Parliament channel first, allowing it to load and play for a while, and then going to a BBC Channel and launching the BBCi News Multiscreen service.
|
|
Playback Momentary Picture Freeze [1] Frequency: Varies |
Some recordings show momentary freezing – or judder – of the picture (but never sound) whilst playing back. This is experienced by users who never have signal issues when watching live on the Twin. Playing back the affected section again often shows the freezing with slightly different symptoms. What appears to be new to the 1.7.55 firmware is that these freezes can sometimes also be accompanied by “blockiness”. Again, I must emphasise that this is on setups that would never show this live. Experiences vary according to the channel / programme in question, but as a rough guide Channel 5 seems to be least affected, with C4 moderately affected, and ITV & BBC2 most affected. It does not happen on every recording though. Recordings of Buffy the Vampire Slayer almost always show this problem. This is an issue not related to signal quality: i.e. the same programme watched live would not show this issue. This post on the forum contains some very interesting observations about this issue: some almost imperceptible symptoms may be present on the live transmission. Note: it is important to note that similar symptoms can be caused by a poor signal and/or impulse interference, and this entry refers to the playback-only problem. |
None known. |
|
Loss of FF / REW / Play graphics [1] Frequency: Infrequent |
Sometimes the graphic in the top-right of the picture is absent when using FF / REW, so you cannot see the speed (the time is still available from the banner at the bottom of the screen, and on the front of the unit) |
Press Info twice. This seems to reset the display. |
|
Recording fails to stop Frequency: Rare |
Sometimes the recording fails to stop at the specified time, and instead continues until the disk is full. |
None known. |
|
RGB pass-thru lack of Red (Blue tint) [1] Frequency: Always |
When passing an RGB signal through the Twin, the Red component is reduced and the picture takes on a blue tint. This is most obvious on pure white areas such as the menus to The Office Series 2 DVD, which turn blue, but the whole picture is affected. This appears to have been introduced in the last two firmware revisions (1.7.50 onwards) |
Depending on your setup, try to organise the cabling so that nothing needs to pass an RGB signal through the Twin (i.e. pass the Twin signal through the DVD player, rather than the other way around.) |
|
Zero-length recording [1] Frequency: Unknown |
Sometimes a recording appears to work, but just puts a zero-length entry in the library. Some people report this exclusively on timeshare channels (not surprising given the unit's inability to reliably show the correct stream on such channels), whilst others have seen it on other channels too. Therefore there may be two problems, but both with the same symptom. |
None known. |
|
Picture Freeze on playback of very dark/bright pictures [1] Frequency: Varies; most prevalent on C4 |
Sometimes when playing back a recording the picture will freeze with the sound continuing. This most often happens when a very dark or very bright picture is being displayed. e.g. a graphic of mostly one colour, or a fade to a colour. This seems to be a variation on the “fade-to-black” issue affecting previous firmwares. |
Stop and re-start playback. |
|
Edit Programme Title does not work [1] Frequency: Always |
It is not possible to change the name of a programme displayed in the Library, either by altering the Name field or the Comments field. This feature used to work on previous versions of the firmware. |
None known. |
|
Random / one-off faults [1] |
[This is a placeholder entry to list random / one-off faults that have been reported – symptoms that are most likely to be a result of the software corrupting its own memory. Faults will gain their own entry as/when reported again by the same user or someone else]
|
Mains reset. |
|
Start-up occurs twice Frequency: Infrequent |
Occasionally when switching the unit on from standby, the Init process occurs twice; at what would usually be the end of the start-up process, the hard drive spins down and the start-up process begins again. This appears to be a feature common to all Twins – there don't appear to be any ill effects from it. Included here mainly to reassure users that this is not unique to their box. |
None known. |
|
Archive front-panel hours display |
When archiving to VCR, the display on the front doesn't update the hours part. i.e. 1hr 13 into the archive is displayed as 00:13. The minutes update ok. |
None known |
|
Crash on Channel Change |
Some users find that the unit can crash when changing channels. This was a bug that was present on previous firmware versions, but believed fixed on this version. It appears that a significant subset of users still experience this problem, although many do not even with intensive usage. Have not managed at establish what the difference might be between those two sets. |
None known |
Key
Crash / Inability to watch or record programme
Major bug
Bug
Possible external cause
Entries tagged by '1' I have personally verified on this firmware version, and have been reported by myself and others on the forum. (The vast majority of entries)
Entries tagged by '2' I have personally verified on previous firmware versions, and have been reported by others via forum/e-mail as still present on this version.
Other issues reported via forum and e-mail as present on this version.
Successful Usage Scenarios
These experiences detail usage scenarios from users who experience very few issues with their Twin:
"It's mostly used for time shifting programmes... The disc has never been full and stuff rarely stays on the drive for more than 4 or 5 days. Every time the disc is empty or weekly I initialise the disc. To me this is like de-fragging a PC disc. It seems to work, along with not pressing buttons too quickly in succession."
“I tend to leave the box on when there's a recording scheduled. Also, I only record at most six or seven things each week...”
Revision History
18/04/2004 17:00
Commentary update
More info about Sound drop-out, I have seen this happen "live"
Added Archive front-panel display
Added more explanation to start-up crash
Recordings Corruption, added note about back-to-back recordings being more risky
Added Crash on Channel Change with note that it appears to only affect some people
23/02/2004 19:40
Commentary update: new firmware postponed.
11/02/2004 22:20
Commentary update to detail long-awaited new update in March
Added a variation of Recordings corruption
01/02/2004 21:30
Commentary update.
04/01/2004 21:00
“Channel 5 Recordings Corruption” renamed to “Recordings Corruption” to list the various different symptoms of corrupted recordings.
Added “Edit Programme Title does not work”
Added “Start-up occurs twice”
Added “Random / one-off faults”
Added one cause of “On-screen display crash.” There may be others.
16/11/2003 22:30
Added “Zero-length recording”
Added “Picture Freeze on playback of very dark/bright pictures”
Noted that Buffy almost always show the “Playback Momentary Picture Freeze” problem
05/11/2003 21:15
Linked to new information on the forum regarding “Playback Momentary Picture Freeze.”
03/11/2003 20:30
Added “RGB pass-thru lack of Red (Blue tint)”
Updated “Recording sound drop-out ”
03/11/2003 10:00
Completely revised description for "FF/REW random skip" as the description got mangled before, and also noted that I see this mainly on REW.
Couple of other refinements to descriptions in: "Recording sound drop-out", "Picture or Sound Loss for entire mux", "Playback Momentary Picture Freeze" and "Loss of FF / REW / Play graphics"
02/11/2003 22:30
Added note to BBCi problem to say that Pace have told them that a fix is due soon.
02/11/2003 19:50
Revised some frequencies to “Rare”
Added more information regarding circumstances of “Recording sound drop-out”
Added “Recording fails to stop”
Added tags to detail which issues I have personally verified on this version, and which I have verified on previous versions and are reported as still being present on this version.
02/11/2003 14:30
Updated and classified “Playback Momentary Picture Freeze”
Added new commentary
Added “Successful Usage Scenarios” section
Added “Loss of FF / REW / Play graphics”
Added “Recording sound drop-out”
29/10/2003 00:30
Added rough notes on frequency of each issue.
Added reported workaround for BBCi Multiscreen issue.
Added “Playback Momentary Picture Freeze” (more refined version of “Momentary Picture Freeze” that I previously removed).
27/10/2003 21:30
Updated “Timeshare channel behaviour” and “BBCi News Multiscreens” to note that this is seen on other manufacturer's boxes also.
Updated “Always outputs RGB...” to note that this only happens if the box has woken itself up from standby for recording.
Removed “Momentary Picture Freeze” until we can be sure this is not just a symptom of the box coping with a bitstream error
26/10/2003 19:30
Minor updates for spelling etc.
Upgraded and renamed “Picture or Sound Loss for entire mux”
26/10/2003 18:00
Added this revision history
Tidied and enhanced some of descriptions
Moved Workaround for "Picture and/or Sound Loss for entire mux" into Description; it's not really a workaround because it requires a restart that may not be possible if recording.
Added Sound Drop-Outs using Archive
Added BST to GMT switch bug
Added Momentary Picture Freeze
Put the list in a slightly better order
Added colour-coding.
26/10/2003 14:00
First published